Tuesday, 18 July 2017


Welcome back to the 40KMisfit coverage of the 8th edition Chaos Index.  Last post I went on a rant about the organisation of the book, but I think I recovered well and transitioned into the HQ units.  There were a lot of them and that post was quite long.  Well, looks like we might be in for another long one cause today we look at all the other stuff that makes up the Heretic Astartes army.  Many things stayed pretty much the same, and some things changed drastically.  I won't waste too much time on the things that didn't change that much as I assume most of you have some concept of what I am talking about.

The staple of many armies, our troops have not changed that much.  The weapons, the stats, their uses have all remained pretty much the same, but due to the actual change of the game, their importance has actually increased.  It has been looking like weight of fire is going to be a strong tactic in this edition and few pump out as many attacks as a large unit of Cultists with pistols, which can now have 40 models in the unit.  Including the pistol, 3 attacks per turn hitting on 4's is nothing to sneeze at when there are 20 models making attacks.  Alternately they can keep their Autoguns and 4 of them can take Heavy Stubbers.  Numbers also becomes an important part of the game because objectives is determined by number of models.

Straddling the line of Troops and Elites are the God dedicated units, Bezerkers, Thousand Sons, Plague Marines, and Noise Marines, all of which got better.  Berzerkers dropped to 16 points each and their chain-axe dropped to a point but gives them S+1(making them S6) and AP-1 which is amazing for a single point. They can still only take 2 plasma pistols, but the champ can choose from the Champion Equipment list.  Their big strength comes from their ability, like Kharn, to fight twice in the fight phase.  So when they get to combat, they are going to hit pretty hard.  S6 and AP-1 will cripple marine squads and destroy anything weaker.  Even terminators need to watch out, with enough attacks they will do some damage.

Next up on the list are the Thousand Sons.  Slated in the list at 18 points, this is a bit of a lie as their standard issue inferno bolters cost an additional 2 points, I won't start on this.  These guys are kinda scary as that standard issue bolter is AP-2.  While this weapon has actually become less effective at killing marines(not in cover) as it's 7th ed predecessor, it has become far more capable at killing anything with a 2+ save.  They have also become more durable with their All is Dust rule which adds 1 to their saving roll against D1 weapons, this includes their invulnerable save which becomes 4+.  They also ignore the -1 to hit penalty for moving and firing heavy weapons.  Pretty solid fire base for 20 points per model.  But we still aren't done because each unit of these guys gets an Aspiring Sorcerer that gets a junior version of Smite.  Gotta love those Mortal Wounds.

Plague Marines, these guys have always been good and since they are the poster boys for Chaos this edition, slated to get their own Codex in the next couple weeks, nothing is about to change.  Still T5, their war gear has changed a little, each getting a Plague Knife(re-rolling 1's to wound) and Bolter along with Blight and Krak grenades, losing the pistol they also used to carry.  They also have a form of FNP, called Disgustingly Resilient, that works very similar as before, for each point of damage they take, they roll a D6 and on a 5+ they ignore that wound, including Mortal Wounds.  This gets a little confusing and time consuming with weapons that cause multiple points of damage.  A quick scenario:  A unit of plague marines is hit and wounded by 2 meltaguns and 2 super charged plasma guns, all of the saves are failed.  So while allocating damage, one PM will have to make 2 DR(Disgustingly Resilient) rolls for the first plasma, a second PM will have to make 2 DR rolls for the second plasma, a third PM will have to make D6 DR rolls from the meltagun, and a fourth PM will have to make D6 DR rolls from the second meltagun.  All that for 21 points.  Plus they get a new weapon, the Blight Launcher, 24" Assault 2, S6, AP-2, Dd3.  I am starting to think that Assault weapons are going to be pretty good for certain builds due to their ability to Advance and still shoot and with the PM's movement of 5", this helps their mobility issues.

Last on our list of "Cult Marines" are the formerly "Red headed step-child" of Chaos fame, the Noise Marines.  I think these guys got a boost.  At first look they are not much, they look like your standard Marine with an extra attack for 16 points, but they get access to sonic weapons, which are ok.  They aren't anything to gush about, until you can shoot them out of sequence right before you pull them off the table even if the enemy is within 1".  Yep, when these guys die they can shoot their weapons off one last time at pretty much anything they want before you pull them off the table.  It's kind of like Soul Burst, and we all know how god awful broken that is, you can't kill anything in that army.  And once again, all the Sonic weapons are Assault weapons allowing for Advancing and shooting.  You need some crowd control, these are the guys.

On to the truly elite units starting with Terminators.  TWO WOUNDS!  Now that that's out of the way, they haven't really changed that much.  Combi-weapons, melee weapons, deep strike, 2+/5++, all that jazz.  Combi-flamers have lost a lot of use though as when you drop in you are not able to set up within range of them unless you can cast Warptime on them, which is where we come to our first

2 out of the 3 combi-weapons that Terminators can be equipped with get significantly better when closer than what deep strike allows, not to mention all that close combat potential.  There are a couple ways you can get Warptime close enough to use it.  First, and probably most obvious, you can drop in a Sorcerer in terminator armour or jump pack right next to the terminators and viola, or you can just use tactics and skills and time it just right to have a sorcerer or daemon prince in the right place at the right time.  Either way it gets those terminators a 4" charge after laying waste with combi-weapons galore so they can lay waste again with power weapons galore all for a base cost of 31 points.
However they are not without their drawbacks.  I have discovered that the thing that was so good at killing terminators before (plasma guns) are still really good at killing them.  While extremely durable against small arms fire, anything bigger tends to wipe them out pretty quick.  Second, their minimum unit size is 5, which means there is no room for a character to join them in a Land Raider and that is just all kinds of wrong.

Next on the list are Chosen and they did not change at all.  All the weapons.  Nuff said

Possessed got a bit of a revamp and there are some ups and downs.  First off, they are 22 points, which is a lot for no guns and only d3 attacks.  That is a little too random to be able to rely on.  Now these guys did get some boosts, a 7" move and AP-2 are pretty good and these guys popping out of a vehicle hitting the front line will do some damage, but not alone.  They really need some help be it Prescience or a Lord/Prince for the re-rolls to help mitigate those times they get low attacks.

In a game where you need to being either fast, dangerous, or durable, the Helbrute/Dreadnaught has not been any of them in along time.  That has changed pretty drastically.  Starting off at 72 points, and don't let that fool you cause you'd be hard pressed to get one for less than 125, the Helbrute has gotten faster, tougher and deadlier.  There are many different styles you can build, anti vehicle with twin lascannon and missile launcher.  Anti horde with heavy bolter or auto cannon and a fist with heavy flamer, or even 2 fists and heavy flamers.  Anti elite would be the plasma cannon and fist, or fist and scourge(my favourite). The fist and scourge Helbrute will end up costing around 155, but he gets 5 attacks at S12 AP-3 and D3 PLUS 3 attacks as S8 AP-2 D2.  That's 8 attacks in total!  We have not even gotten to the best part yet, at the end of any phase that the Helbrute suffers a wound, roll a D6 and on a 6 you can shoot(no enemies within 1") or fight.  But beware, although his T7, W8 and Sv3+ makes him pretty tough, a Manticore can still kill him in one turn if it gets 12 shots.  Right Brenden?

And that is all of the elites.  Nothing more to see here...

FINE, WE'LL TALK ABOUT MUTILATORS!  I don't know what GW has against these guys.  They have ALWAYS sucked and their models are terrible.  They still suck, and I haven't heard of any new models for them any time soon.  For 65 points each, and you have to take 3, you get a T4 guy with 3 wounds and 2+ save.  He has S5+d3, AP-d3, and Dd3.  What does this mean?  You roll 3d3 before each time it fights and fill in the blanks.  You don't even get to choose where they go, you have to roll them in order.  Oh, and they are only M4".  What is that all about?  A dedicated combat unit that can't move worth shit?  Sure they can teleport in, but you still have a long charge to make and you only have 3 so you can't even suck in many other units.  The simplest way to fix these guys is, at the start of each turn you roll 3d3 and allocate the results how you see fit.  That way when you are begging for that high damage to kill ork nobs you don't end up with S8 AP-3 and D1.  Or when you're fighting Marines you won't get S6, AP-1, and D3.

In a role of it's own we have the humble Rhino.  It's more than doubled in points cost, but I wholeheartedly agree that it's worth it.  So vehicles got a huge boost in this edition.  No longer are the days where a single lascannon or meltagun will ruin your day and blow up your transport.  Now they will need to dedicate a serious amount of firepower to take it out.  The last game I played my opponent dedicated 2/3 of his IG army to killing a single Rhino and he was not able to, leaving it at a single wound.  This was in part to smoke launchers, which no longer give a cover save but make it harder to hit with a -1 to all hit rolls targeting it.  That does not seem like much, but if you also get it in cover it's a really hard nut to crack.  The Rhino can hold 10 models and take a smorgasbord of weapons nearly making it a razorback.  Tack on a havoc launcher and a combi weapon and you got a pretty good fire platform.  We must remember though, and this is the first unit I've talked about that has this, this unit will degrade in ability the more damage it takes.  It's movement decreases, it's BS decreases and it's attacks decreases.
In my couple games, and this really should not come to any surprise, I have found that you need to pick a job for it to do and stick to it.  I wanted my Rhinos to both act as a fire support and transport troops into the teeth of the enemy tank gun line and equipped them with havoc launchers and extra combi bolters.  Well, if I want them to shoot they are not advancing and not using smoke, and if they are advancing and using smoke that are not shooting, thereby wasting the points I spent on the firepower.  If I was to do it again I would maybe put on a combi-flamer.  Because it's an assault weapon I will be able to shoot after I advance and it automatically hits.
In short, Rhinos are good at their job again.

Ok, my bikers don't look this good, but they get me just as hard.  Getting a 50% points increase, but a 100% wound increase, these guys might just be my new favourite mobile gun platform.  So for 33 points you get a biker with a combi-bolter and a pistol.  You can then choose to buy a special weapon, or you can upgrade your combi-bolter for a special weapon, but why would you do that?  You can have a combi-boter and a special weapon.  And since all units have super split fire you can fire your meltaguns at that Leman Russ tank and the Combi-bolters into that command squad.  Now their increased wounds and firepower are not the only thing that has changed, they have also gotten faster and slower.  Their movement has increased to 14", only get 6" to their advance, as opposed to their 12" "turbo boost".  I don't mind this loss of inches mainly because I can still shoot assault weapons after advancing.  Moving 20" and throwing out a couple meltagun shots can catch someone unaware at the most inopportune time.  I would not try this right off the hop though unless you also get a Warptime off and they can move twice, getting nice a close and not needing to advance.  Alternately you could put flamers on them so they are doing 3d6 hits plus 3 combi-bolters and a bolter.

Raptors have not changed a lot.  None of their stats have changed, their weapon options are all the same, they can deep strike, even their points stayed the same.  The one rule that did change though is they no longer cause fear, but dish out a +1 to morale tests to enemy units within 1", so in combat.  I believe that causing morale tests is going to be a viable strategy in 8th and this ability will really help with this.  For many situations, losing a single model is not that big of a deal, but when you cause a single model like a wraithguard to run, then that's where it makes a difference.

Warptalons are also nearly the same, their points dropped a few and they still have a pair of lightning claws and they can still deep strike.  Again though, their special rule that used to cause a blind test to enemies when they landed nearby has changed to units cannot fire overwatch against them on the turn that they arrive.  This brings me to my next combo...
The idea here is to use the Warptalons to protect your other charging units by denying the overwatch. With a big enough unit of Warptalons this could potentially affect many enemy units.  First off, drop in your Warptalons into a centralised area, usually an area where they would get completely shot to pieces next turn.  Then you use a strategically placed psyker to cast Warptime on them giving them a chance to move their 12" and get right next to all their potential targets and charge as many enemy units as possible.  The enemy can't overwatch and then the rest of your nearby units can feel free to assault free from harassment.  This works great with a couple other units that can deep strike, maybe have the sorcerer do it too, and you have a scary little time bomb that your enemy will have to concern himself with until you decide it's time to strike.  With all those units in reserve, it makes it pretty obvious what you're going to do, but it makes it easier than trying to set up a perfect scenario with unit on the table.  Things might have died, or got blocked or delayed from being where you need them to make the big dog pile charge.

Spawn are still in the fast attack role, but they got a lot slower(M7") and look a lot more like super possessed for 33 points each.  Their S5, T5, W4, and Ad6 all looks about normal but they get a 5+ save and AP-2 D2 which is pretty damn awesome.  Add a bonus ability each fight of -4AP, +2A, OR re-rolling failed wounds and these guys are pretty scary.  They also give out a -1 Ld penalty to enemy units within 1".  Combine this ability to the Raptors ability and you could be causing some serious morale issues for your opponent, maybe forcing him to use command points to keep his units from running.

Our only flier in this book isn't even really a flier.  It doesn't have supersonic or hard to hit and just moves around like a normal model, albeit really quickly.  At 138 points it sounds like a steal, until you realise that the baleflamer(which is still the better weapon at S6, AP-2, D2) is 60 points.  Still, for under 200 points you have a ridiculously fast (30" movement, undamaged) that can get where it needs to be to deliver a very critical strike.  It can also assault and is no slouch in combat with A4, AP-1, Dd3.  It's claws have a rule that makes it better at hitting enemy units with the fly keyword, which could be anything from actual fliers to jump pack units.  It's also somewhat durable with T7 and W12, plus it regains a wound back every turn and has a 5++.

At the top of the heap in the heavy support column is something that I don't think I've seen in a top table competitive game of 40 in many years, the Landraider.  T8, W16, Sv2+, this thing is a beast.  But beware is seemingly fair price of 239 cause it's actually bullshit.  With the inclusion of weapon you are looking at a minimum of 356 points.  It does carry 10 models, and has 4 lascannon shots with 6 heavy bolter shots, it ignores the -1 to hit penalty for moving and shooting heavy weapons, and can take some extra support weapons if you want, it puts out a ton of hurt, and can take a serious pounding.  For it's cost, it's worth it.  There are some definite drawbacks though, just as before.  It's expensive, so when you face that list that has 20+ lascannons/equivalents, you will loose it and soon.  There are a couple ways to protect it though as the new FAQ has stated that if a model in in cover, it does not matter what is obscuring it, only that it is obscured.  So that means if you got a couple treads in cover and your other rhinos are covering 50% of the Landraider, you will get cover giving your Landraider a 4+ save vs AP-3 firepower.  As I mentioned in the terminator section, since terminators only come in squads of 5, you can't fit a character in with them, but you can fit in 3 mutilators and a Chaos Lord.  This is probably the ONLY real potential use for mutilators as it solves their lack of mobility issue and they can remain mobile as long as the Landraider remains nearby and mobile.

Our next killer tank is the Predator, and I have to say I'm loving the Autocannon it comes with.  While S7 and AP-1 is a little on the weak side, but the 2d3 shots and solid D3 make each failed save really hurt.  With a base of 102 points, and the turret weapon nearly 50 points, this tank is going to cost 151 points, add another 10 points for heavy bolter sponsons, or 50 points for lascannon sponsons and maybe a havoc launcher or combi-weapon.  While there seems to be a surge in the popularity of lascannons, I can see a place for a Predator to take the Autocannon turret and lascannon sponsons.  I don't think heavy bolters are what you want to use for crowd control, and certainly not on a vehicle.  You will see some of these, and they will hurt your big stuff so make them a priority.

The Vindicator is up next, and it's cost of 160 is "all in" because it's demolisher cannon has a cost of 0.  Since the demolisher cannon is the only thing that can take it, they decided to add it's cost into the model's cost and give the gun a cost of 0.  Just one more thing that confuses the fuck out of me and the organisation of this book, but I digress.  With all the basic stats of the Predator, except for T8, it's an ok buy but the demolisher cannon is disappointing.  I find that it's either the low number of shots, or maybe the variability of it's damage that just doesn't seem to make up the cost in my mind.  Being a siege type weapon I would have assumed that there would be a boon when shooting at fortifications, or other vehicles, or units in cover, perhaps ignoring cover.  Perhaps more shots, or similar to a meltagun, a higher chance of high damage output.  Instead, it gets an increased number of shots when shooting at a unit of 5 or more models.  This kind of undermines it's large S and D result as most units that consist of 5 or more models typically have a lower T and W, making the S10 and Dd6 somewhat superfluous.

OK, what can I say about Obliterators that has not already been said about Mutilators.  They are kind of shit.  For a unit that has so long been the backbone of the Chaos shooting phase, it's very disappointing to see where they ended up.  While I actually like the idea that they had with both units, I feel they have both fallen short of their mark.  With the same basic stats, the Oblits have a projectile weapon that 24", S6+d3, AP-d3, and Dd3.  The weapons only saving grace is that it's Assault 2, meaning it can advance and shoot, and with it's M4" it'll need it.  Of course it can deep strike, but with it's random shooting ability it is really hard to pick a right target to deep strike near and be able to hurt.  These guys are just too random for 65 points.  Oh, and as with the mutilators you have to take 3, no more, no less.  Bizarre.

Havocs on the other hand are way more gooder than they was before the 8th edition gots here!  Not for any rule added to the Havocs themselves, but because of the rules to the actual weapons and how they are used.  Moving and shooting heavy weapons isn't as much of an issue any more with a mere -1 to hit modifier, and weapons have gotten far more deadly.  While the autocannon has been the favourite of this unit for a long time, for a measly 5 more points you can get a lascannon or missile launcher, both of which are far better than the autocannon.  Another great thing is the infinite split fire unit get, if you happen to be short on heavy support slots then you can put mixed weapons in a Havoc squad and they can still fire at their optimal targets.  Remember to take a couple extra models as sacrificial lambs.

Our Maulerfind/Forgefind duo have levelled out in points, although I'm not too sure it's for the better. Starting at around 170-180 including weapons, I don't really see these guys doing enough damage especially after taking a couple wounds.  First off, they start as WS4+ and BS4+, each degrading as they take more damage, of course the thing that makes them good being the thing that gets worse.  They are fairly tough with 12 wounds, a 3+/5++ and repairing a wound at the start of each turn.  So lets take a better look, starting with the Forgefiend, I've already looked at the stats so lets stick to the weapons.  The ectoplasma cannon is only 24", but it's AP-3 and Dd3 is pretty good, but it's biggest failing is S7.  Only wounding most infantry on 3+ and most vehicles on 4+ really takes some wind out of it's sails.  If you want S8 you're limited to it's hades autocannons, and the AP-1 is really disappointing for a gun of that calibre.  The D2 is nice, but the S8 and it's volume of fire is what this gun really has going for it.  Prescience and a nearby re-roll generator will really show payoffs though.  Same with the Maulerfiend power fists.  Sx2, AP-3, and D3, plus 2 magma cutters which are 6" pistols S8, AP-4, D3.  These are all really good, except for the fact that he only hits on a 4+ and only get A4 at full health, but that's not likely to last since he has to run across the field to get to use any of his awesome abilities.  All said, either version is likely to only get 1 or 2 attacks through without any buffs.  Not very impressive for 180 points.

Another "sort of dud" is our good buddy the Defiler.  While better that it was in previous editions, this guy can put out some pretty serious punch in both shooting and punching.  He is kind of like a Maulerfiend and Forgefiend combined, and he is around 270 points with basic wargear.  The good thing is that he can put out an ungodly amount of fire power and it's pretty decent quality.  Battle cannon, twin heavy flamer (2d6 shots that hit automatically!), reaper autocannon is it's starting equipment, but I would consider swapping the twin heavy flamer for a power scourge to augment his rather paltry A3.  Plus his WS4+ doesn't degrade as he loses wounds.  He also has smoke launcher for some unexplained reason.  You know, in case he needs to advance cause he is out of range with his...battle cannon?  Overall a mediocre unit much like it's daemon engine brethren.  Now if they had thought to give the Warpsmith some sort of ability that buffs daemon engines, that would have been pretty cool.

Lord of War
The last unit I will talk about, and briefly at that, is the good 'ol king of beers, the Khorne Lord of Skulls.  You'll be looking at a minimum of just over 600 points for this guy, upwards of over 700, and honestly, I have no idea if he is worth it.  He has W28 and T8 with a 3+5++ and all those things are good, as are his increasing attacks.  Although they do get weaker, his dual attack methods match this perfectly starting with his slash attacks while his is a his highest S and switching to his smash attacks when his S falls.  Please leave me any messages or info on how this guy plays if you have used him.

Well, once again I have come to end of a long winded episode that's probably going to take several bathroom breaks to read.  Don't push too hard, you blow and "O"ring.  Thanks for reading and feel free to leave comments, I read them all... if there were any...
Until next time, keep them dice rollin.


  1. What shoukd we combine with Abaddon for a fire base army?

    I'm thinking of Havocs, defilers, forgefiends, long ranged predators and helbrutes. Perhaps noise marines with all the trimmings (including the heavy weapon). Even autogun cultists as a bubble wrap!

    1. Yes to all those things. I'm going to put and emphasis on the predators over the forgefiends or defiler. Better BS.